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ST(R)'s Kirk/Spock dynamic |
Jeremy
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Posts: 1557
Location: Illinois
Joined: 26.05.06 |
| Posted on January 08 2025 19:53:05 |
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NX-47 wrote:
It occurred to me that this aspect of Spock's character (his self-loathing) might also be the key to his trust in and friendship with Kirk: not only did the meld give Spock tremendous insight into Kirk's character, but the fact that Kirk still stands by Spock, in spite of Spock's heritage and the the side-effects of the meld, might mean a great deal to him. Here's a Human that knows more about him than anyone in the universe, and this Human still trusts and values him, despite his faults. It provides the opportunity for Spock to truly understand friendships and all that come with them.
Okay...sure Dale, you said this over a year ago, but it's still brilliant. I dont know why I didn't comment on it before. 
Anyway, I just wanted to say that what you said there is the most succinct evaluation of ST(R)'s Kirk/Spock relationship that anyone has ever made (including myself).
It ought to be expanded and made into an essay.
The autumn days swung soft around me, like cotton on my
skin. But as the embers of the summer lost their breath
and disappeared, my heart went cold, and only hollow
rhythms resounded from within.
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RE: ST(R)'s Kirk/Spock dynamic |
NX-47
Super Administrator
Posts: 384
Location: Tampa, Florida
Joined: 25.05.06 |
| Posted on January 09 2025 19:45:48 |
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Hey dood-
Thanks for the props. *blushes*
It ought to be expanded and made into an essay.
Hmmm... I'll see what I can do... no promises on a timeframe though... I like being employed and all, but I barely have time for lunch on most days. 
-------
THAT is the Exploration that awaits you: not mapping stars or studying nebulae, but charting the unknown possibilities of Existence.
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RE: ST(R)'s Kirk/Spock dynamic |
Forsythe-1
Member
Posts: 56
Location: New Jersey
Joined: 04.11.07 |
| Posted on January 09 2025 19:59:21 |
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The development of the relationship is part of what makes ST(R) interesting for me. In TOS, the relationship was essentially established or at the very least ,implied. I always thought it to be a missed opportunity that they didn't proceed from the second pilot, 'Where No Man Has Gone Before' in such a way as to allow the kind of growth and trust we see developing between these two characters. (Yes, I understand that TOS was very much of it's time in that regard, and hindsight is 20/20) Damn, this show deserves to get made! 
"Listen, man. Sleep gives you cancer. Everyone knows that."
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RE: ST(R)'s Kirk/Spock dynamic |
Jeremy
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Posts: 1557
Location: Illinois
Joined: 26.05.06 |
| Posted on January 11 2025 19:38:46 |
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The development of the relationship is part of what makes ST(R) interesting for me.
Awesome. Developing the Kirk/Spock/McCoy dynamic is my favorite thing to write. That relationship is Star Trek as far as I'm concerned. I dont remember where I said it but the premise of ST(R) is, put simply, a three-way love story (albeit, a platonic one) between these three very different guys.
In fact, in the very next episode (High and Dry) we're going to slow down and take stock of their relationship. If In the Harsh Light of Fate thru Here, There Be Dragons was act one, and Fiends and Allies thru That Mine Own Tears Do Scald was the second act, 1.10 is sort of the intermission--the moment where we stop and say "Okay, where do we go from here?"--before diving into the third act of the season (In My Enemy's Shadow thru Penitence).
Damn, this show deserves to get made!
*blushes*
Thank you so much.
The autumn days swung soft around me, like cotton on my
skin. But as the embers of the summer lost their breath
and disappeared, my heart went cold, and only hollow
rhythms resounded from within.
Edited by Jeremy on January 11 2025 19:57:59
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RE: ST(R)'s Kirk/Spock dynamic |
NX-47
Super Administrator
Posts: 384
Location: Tampa, Florida
Joined: 25.05.06 |
| Posted on January 11 2025 20:03:30 |
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Damn, this show deserves to get made!
Just how many times has that been said to you by now?
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THAT is the Exploration that awaits you: not mapping stars or studying nebulae, but charting the unknown possibilities of Existence.
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RE: ST(R)'s Kirk/Spock dynamic |
Jeremy
Administrator
Posts: 1557
Location: Illinois
Joined: 26.05.06 |
| Posted on January 11 2025 20:11:57 |
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Is there any way for me to answer that without sounding like an ass?
The autumn days swung soft around me, like cotton on my
skin. But as the embers of the summer lost their breath
and disappeared, my heart went cold, and only hollow
rhythms resounded from within.
Edited by Jeremy on January 11 2025 20:14:21
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RE: ST(R)'s Kirk/Spock dynamic |
Brikar
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Posts: 753
Joined: 01.06.06 |
| Posted on January 11 2025 20:32:38 |
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But like, the good kind of ass...
"The proliferation of Christianity from an Asian point of view: it was huge, cuz they're so short."
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RE: ST(R)'s Kirk/Spock dynamic |
Forsythe-1
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Posts: 56
Location: New Jersey
Joined: 04.11.07 |
| Posted on January 12 2025 04:43:24 |
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Well, I keep saying it all the time. It's hard to wax poetic about it or say anything else when all my brain is saying is "TPTB should be crawling through cut glass to get this project up and running." I get calm about it until a new script arrives and then the whole process starts up again.
This show would revitalize Trek in general. Point blank. There are plenty of purists out there doing the "classic" thing. Great. I love it. Love Exeter and NV. It's a blast, but I see no reason why there isn't room for ST(R).
OK. Rants over, you can all come out now!
"Listen, man. Sleep gives you cancer. Everyone knows that."
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RE: ST(R)'s Kirk/Spock dynamic |
Moeskido
Member
Posts: 46
Joined: 13.10.07 |
| Posted on January 12 2025 22:24:46 |
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I posted the other day (at another Trek project forum) about how the big two leaders of the comics industry sees no problem with either rebooting or reimagining their primary moneymakers every couple of years.
While DC and Marvel are a bit more nimble at adjusting their formulas to pander to what they see as a current audience preference, their business is a lot more vulnerable to something John Byrne noted on his forum, which is the effect of non-professional fans who become part of the industry, but lack the formal training and storytelling skills to actually improve the product.
I have URLs here somewhere, if anyone's interested in what Byrne said. It resonates quite a bit with what we're seeing in projects like Of Gods and Men. |
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RE: ST(R)'s Kirk/Spock dynamic |
Rich
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Posts: 492
Joined: 30.05.06 |
| Posted on January 13 2025 00:13:34 |
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I think I know what you mean - there are plenty of people out there who might have great ideas for premises and stories, but have no idea about the elements needed to tell the story in an entertaining way; character arcs, thematic elements, pacing etc. It's a big flaw with New Voyages, I think - most of the stories I've seen them do don't have any emotional relevance at all and are more sort of fanwank "Wouldn't it be cool if Kirk traveled back in time and met himself" kind of stuff. I mean, in the very first episode of New Voyages had the Guardian of Forever - possibly because of it's being featured in what is widely regarded as the best ever TOS episode (to replicate it's success), but without Edith Keeler and "He knows, Doctor, he knows", the Guardian would have been just another piece of polystyrene. It reminds me of the kind of the comics I used to make when I was a kid - there'd always be some magically cool new piece of technology, and a big battle with the Borg.
I don't necessarily think you need training either - I seem to be able to critique drama in a much more in depth way than most Creative Writing students I know, and I bet if you went to the pictures and asked some random person whether or not they liked the film and why, I bet you wouldn't once hear the words "plot", "narrative", "dynamic" or "arc" in the majority of responses.
I think it's just a mix of interest, experience and perceptiveness that helps people recognise what elements of a story push peoples buttons and make them want to hear it - but it is something that can be taught to an extent. That goes for acting, directing, and music too.
"The way to a girls bed is through her parents. Have sex with them and you're in."
-- Zapp Brannigan
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RE: ST(R)'s Kirk/Spock dynamic |
Forsythe-1
Member
Posts: 56
Location: New Jersey
Joined: 04.11.07 |
| Posted on January 13 2025 08:45:02 |
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Rich wrote:
I think it's just a mix of interest, experience and perceptiveness that helps people recognise what elements of a story push peoples buttons and make them want to hear it - but it is something that can be taught to an extent. That goes for acting, directing, and music too.
This is that nebulous "x-factor" in the creative process that makes, IMO, something above and beyond. I understand it most within the realm of music, having encountered those who are "schooled" as opposed to those who are self taught. In either method, there are those who understand the language of creation, as it were. (an argument that is popular in this realm is "feel" versus technique, which, can be adapted to the topic at hand, given a little creativity.) There are also those who do things by rote or by some self applied system, and those who are able to create from the tried and true educational paths that have been developed as a curriculum over time. Neither is better, though both have their advantages.(How's that for decisive, kids?)
One without the other can lead to a very insular way of thinking that might cause for lack of a better term, creation collapsing in on itself. Where that line is crossed is for more learned people to decide but I'm convinced it exists. Moeskido's commentary here and elsewhere about the current state of comics (the books not the "stand-up" type.)
are an eloquent example of what the pernicious inbreeding of one philosophy without the other can breed.
Whatever my point is (and forgive me friends if I don't have one. I thought I did when I started), is that I think ST(R) is worthy of merit, because the writing is smart, current and thoughtful. The inertia of that enthusiasm is propelling me into Krossroads. Whatever the wellspring, be it the DIY ethic or the academic route or a little of both, I'm getting a little something more here even without the beloved eye candy I've come to crave with my entertainment. It's late and I'm raving and drooling, but in a positive light. Bring on Krossroads! (Not to be confused with the one where Ralph Macchio fights another white guy about who can really play the blues! If you remember that movie you play guitar or have no life...in my case, both!))
"Listen, man. Sleep gives you cancer. Everyone knows that."
Edited by Forsythe-1 on January 13 2025 16:24:40
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RE: ST(R)'s Kirk/Spock dynamic |
Rich
Member
Posts: 492
Joined: 30.05.06 |
| Posted on January 13 2025 23:57:29 |
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I think specifically, there are certain things that one needs to learn to go from "Brilliant Amateur" to "Brilliant Professional", in music this could be learning about basic theoretical concepts that give you a good springboard from which you can embellish your compositions, for an actor it could be learning about throwing your voice or how to act in front of a camera or something. In most people's work, you tend to see a progression from their first efforts, which will be full of new ideas, but a bit raw and lacking in refinement, to later on when they create their "masterpiece", which is usually at the point in their career where they've struck that perfect balance of originality and production experience.
"The way to a girls bed is through her parents. Have sex with them and you're in."
-- Zapp Brannigan
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RE: ST(R)'s Kirk/Spock dynamic |
Jeremy
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Posts: 1557
Location: Illinois
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| Posted on January 14 2025 00:58:27 |
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Interesting subject.
For a musician, the graduation from amateur to professional (at least for me anyway) was the moment I learned how to balance performance with prowess, live. There's a good reason why rock musicians (especially vocalists) usually sound better in studio recordings than they do at a gig: performing is really more about connecting with the audience than it is with technical proficiency.
Dont get me wrong, though; I've heard live recordings where I was much happier with my voice than I was with what we'd spent weeks getting right in some goddamn studio (which isn't my favorite place in the world). However, most of the time, the controlled environment of a recording session--when there is no interaction with an audience (the necessity of performance)--the technical prowess is, nine times out of ten, going to be superior. The maturation was the moment I learned how to strike the correct balance; to let go of my ego long enough to be okay with not hitting every note like an opera singer (and opera is all about prowess) and just go with the vibe (whatever it was) like all the great rock vocalists did/do.
The autumn days swung soft around me, like cotton on my
skin. But as the embers of the summer lost their breath
and disappeared, my heart went cold, and only hollow
rhythms resounded from within.
Edited by Jeremy on January 14 2025 01:10:40
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